Forum:Villains in Phineas and Ferb
Over the past year, we have had several characters marked as being a villain, followed almost immediately by that category being removed. It's happened often enough by several different people that I think it's time to make a decision as to which characters are villains in the series. Some are pretty easy. Heinz Doofenshmirtz is a villain, as are all the other members of LOVEMUFFIN and those with an OWCA Agent assigned to them like the Regurgitator. But what about Vanessa? She's admitted to being "a little evil" in "Summer Belongs to You!" and took her Mary McGuffin doll back from a girl, but does that make her a villain? And if she's trying to bust her dad, a known evil person, wouldn't that put her on the side of good? Other characters that have been marked as villains include Suzy, Wendy and Albert. Are they really villains? There is a matching "Villain Songs" category which used to be for "songs sung by villains or a song that has a villainous intent", but it's dropped that second part. However, the songs in this category are dependent upon what the definition of a villain is. So, what is our definition of a villain? Is it more along the lines of a criminal, or is it a person that does some bad things, no matter how minor or infrequent? Let's find out what our community thinks. Who's a villain and who's not? Add reasons for or against the characters being considered a villain. Source of the villain categories I have learned the reason why we are even having to discuss this. There is one user who added most of the the villain categories. I did a little bit of research and found out that they have been doing the same type of thing on about two dozen wikis. Based on this, I have determined that they don't really care whether a character or person is a villain. Their purpose for adding the categories is to disrupt this wiki and all the other wikis they visit. They have been blocked from this wiki for spamming categories, as per our policy. We can continue to discuss this if we want to, but so far the overall opinion is that most of the characters are not villains. —RRabbit42 (leave a message) 08:32, February 16, 2011 (UTC) In my opinion in order to be considered an actual villain the character must be in multiple episodes and consistently playing the role of the antagonist. Doof is a villain, however other characters such as Poofenplotz, Thaddeus and Thor, HIldegard Johnson, and even Vanessa are not. They do not consistently appear in episodes, or they are not consistently attempting to create some sort of mayhem in the show. The need for a villain for the show is taken care of by Doof, and while they are other characters, especially those of Poofenplotz, or Thaddeus, that may take on the role of the "villain" for an episode, they are not recurring plot elements. If this were all to be considered villains then you would have to consider everyone who interferes with the either the boys' plans, or just causes problems to be a villain. This definition would consume a vast number of characters, even to include Perry, in Traffic Cam Caper; Mom, in Phineas and Ferb Get Busted! (though this is a technically a dream); Buford, in Summer Belongs To You; as well as most of the rest of the cast. Another point I would like to make is the "evilness" required to be a villain. Some people have suggested the Buford and Candace are villains because they have done something "mean" or causes "problems." Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary defines a villain as a "deliberate scoundrel or criminal." This implies a state-of-mind that makes one a villain, an intentional desire to carry out a wrongful or illegal activity. Neither Buford or Candace are deliberately attempting to act against the law or moral code even if they do cause trouble once in a while. I would instead label Candace as a foil to P and F, or a contrasting character. The same could be said for Buford. They both provide a little conflict without actually having evil intentions. Another way to describe them could be as antangonists, while Doof would be considered the anti-hero. (For more info on character types) Therefore I believe that the characer structure for most episodes is as follows: *Doof would be the villain, an antagonist and the anti-hero. *The boys would be the protagonists and the heros *Perry would play the part of Doof's protagonist, and a hero *Candace and Buford would be foils, and minor antagonists *A minor character could play the role of antagonist, or even anti-hero, to the boys. (But only for that episode, not technically making them a recurring villain for the show.) --Respectfully submitted by NinjaBean57 June 25, 2011 Why would you have to make mulitple appearances to be considered a villian? StefCW (talk) 19:07, October 5, 2013 (UTC) I'd like to submit my own concept of a Phineas and Ferb villain. I think that a character should be concidered a villain if that is their chosen profession. For example, Doofenshmirtz, Rodney, and the other members of LOVEMUFFIN, having chosen evil as their profession, are villains (also, the Marvel supervillains are in that category). StefCW (talk) 15:30, November 26, 2013 (UTC) Candace Thinks her brothers shouldn't be able to get away with their projects because she wouldn't be able to. Doesn't prevent them from making them, just wants to catch them in the act and receive acknowledgement from her mom that they've been busted. Loves Phineas and Ferb, but is just annoyed with them. * To me, Candace isn't a villain. She isn't breaking any laws. She has her own definition of what proper behavior is and because Phineas and Ferb go beyond that, she tries to bust them. — RRabbit42 (leave a message) 06:27, September 16, 2010 (UTC) * Agreed. Team Doofenshmirtz 16:09, September 16, 2010 (UTC) * I think she's the main antagonist of the show. But, I agree also.Pretty pink123 "Whatcha Doin?" 14:10, September 17, 2010 (UTC) * She's no villian. She's just irritable * An antagonist isn't the same thing as a villian all of the time. Candace causes problems for her brothers, not for everyone else.Pammazola 22:31, September 26, 2010 (UTC) * Candace is not evil. She is just over protective of her brothers and she wants them to be safe and unharmed. Also, she doesnt do anything evil. she is just a regular teeager. * Candace is not evil. * In later episodes, Candace kind of doesn't care about busting them. In Summer Belongs to You, she was someone nice to everyone and plus she was trying to maintain a relationship. In some other later episodes, she either helps P&F with their projects or hangs out with her friends. So yes, she is annoyed with them, but she still loves them. Tpffan5196 02:32, December 24, 2010 (UTC) * She's sometimes an antagonist, but never a villain. - We hope you've enjoyed your audio tour of....FOSSILS!!! Da Da Da!!!! 17:35, February 22, 2011 (UTC) * Just because she is grounded twice in the show, she is not evil.Ferbet 11:16, May 25, 2011 (UTC) * Candace is a main co-antagonist role almost the time in the Phineas and Ferb, she is not a vilian because she does not be evil, some kind, have you forgot? Ashley Tisdale as Sharpay Evans is main antagonist role in HSM though she is not evil, in spin off Fabulus Adven, Sharpay is the main character, just like Candace! But I think, many people love these two antagonists, right? * All villains are antagonists, but not all antagonists are villains. :--- BBunny42 (leave a message) 08:53, June 7, 2011 (UTC) *BBunny42 is right, She is an antagonist, not vilian, I have reference here Candace is a main antagonist of the show (Hey, BBunny42 and RRabbit42, what is..same..) Candace, evil?! HA! I laugh at this, if anything she's not evil, I think she's the nicest teenage girl in a cartoon! Why?! She's dedicated to busting her brothers, because she really loves them, as proved in some episodes, Candace was lonely before Phineas, and even Ferb came into her life, if you've watched that edited scene from the movie, Candace explains why she wants to bust her brothers, and doesn't want them to get hurt, she even sung that she doesn't blame her mother of thinking she is crazy. If Candace is evil or a villain, then call me Satan(because I have the same personality as her)-Zac Also, to add, she's really, REALLY nice and loving towards Jeremy.... Buford Neighborhood bully. Stole some bikes, but was willing to give them back in a time of need. Breaks a few things. Dominates Baljeet, but has developed a bit of a friendship with Baljeet, Phineas and the other kids, and goes on outings with them, such as to Camp Phineas & Ferb. * discuss if Buford is a villain here * I think can be a bully but there is a difference between being mean and being a villan. He is not trying to take over the world or anything so I would say he is not a villian Team Doofenshmirtz 16:09, September 16, 2010 (UTC) * Yeah, he's really not a villain, sort of like Draco Malfoy in Harry Potter. Mean, but on the good side in the end. Fireside Girl 12:49, September 18, 2010 (UTC)Fireside Girl * Buford's like any other bully. He takes a wack at other's self esteem to feed his own. But he's loveable. Pammazola 22:32, September 26, 2010 (UTC) * Buford is not a villan. He may torture Baljet, but really they are best buddies. A villan wouldnt give back someones bike after steeling unless they were made too. * He's not a villian; he just has a snarky sense of humor. He doesn't really beat up anyone anymore. Tpffan5196 02:34, December 24, 2010 (UTC) * Buford was shown to desire his friends' thinking of him as nice in the Christmas special. FidelGVelasquez 07:49, November 27, 2011 (UTC) * I think the "Frenemies" song sums it up nicely, doesn't it? I am, what I is. -Ron Stoppable 03:49, December 21, 2011 (UTC) Vanessa Assisted her father in at least one of his early schemes, but later stopped helping him and started trying to bust him. After her Mary McGuffin doll was accidentally donated to a charity, Vanessa took it back from a girl. Stole a scooter in Paris, and later admitted to her dad that she might be "a little evil" as part of bonding with him. * Maybe in the future if she continues to follow in her father's footsteps she could be considered a villain, but right now it's all very minor and not villain-worthy. — RRabbit42 (leave a message) 06:27, September 16, 2010 (UTC) * She is "a little evil" but not a villian IMO Team Doofenshmirtz 16:09, September 16, 2010 (UTC) * She's like a lot of people who just do what they have to do to get what they want. She doesn't want everyone to be miserable or at her mercy.Pammazola 22:34, September 26, 2010 (UTC) * I dont think Venassa is a villan. She may have stolen a scooter and has taken a doll away from a little girl, but she wouldnt do any harm. Also, she tries to bust her dad, if she was a villan, she would be trying to help her dad. * "A little evil" isn't enough. You have to do something like make a machine that destroys nature, as Doof has done, or something. Thus Doof=evil, Vanessa=not evil. CandaceFan 01:19, December 24, 2010 (UTC) * She's not evil. She's nice, but like Buford, has a snarky sense of humor and attitude. Tpffan5196 02:35, December 24, 2010 (UTC) Hildegard Johnson Rival to Betty-Jo Flynn, going back to their roller derby days. Still competitive with Betty-Jo to this day. No indication of law-breaking, though. * discuss if Hildegard is a villain here * I think she was just filled with rivalry-ness in that episode and I dont think she is villan worthy Team Doofenshmirtz 16:09, September 16, 2010 (UTC) * I agree with Team Doofenshmirtz. Otherwise, Jeremy has a messed up family (dog, sister, possibly grandma) * After Run, Candace, Run, we can't classify her as a villain.--Firesideboy 06:16, April 8, 2011 (UTC) Professor Poofenplotz States that she wants to take over the world and wants to do evil. Used a ray gun to transport a grocery store worker to another dimension. * Pretty clear that this is a villain. — RRabbit42 (leave a message) 06:27, September 16, 2010 (UTC) * Agree! She replaced Doofenshmirtz in one episode.Pretty pink123 "Whatcha Doin?" 14:13, September 17, 2010 (UTC) * She is a villan. She is worse than Doffenshmirts! Ihate her guts! * Yes, yes she is.Ferbet 11:23, May 25, 2011 (UTC) * Agreed, she is the worst one, she wants to take over the WORLD, meanwhile Doofensmirthz just want to take over the tri-state area.Ferb Fletcher. But you can call me Agent F * Why isn't she in L.O.V.E.M.U.F.F.I.N.? I mean, Doof has had to have screwed up a hundred times worse than she has, and he's a member in good standing. I am, what I is. -Ron Stoppable 03:52, December 21, 2011 (UTC) * She isn't in LOVEMUFFIN because Doofenshmirtz blocked her for always failing. So she's not a very good villain but still a villain. StefCW (talk) 03:49, October 29, 2013 (UTC) Khaka Peü Peü Fights with The Beak because he wants everyone to have "the worst day ever". Done as a means of revenge because he never had a best day of his own. * Again, pretty clear that this is a villain. — RRabbit42 (leave a message) 06:27, September 16, 2010 (UTC) * Does the world evil for his own purposes... Looks like a villian for me! Timdevries 06:51, September 19, 2010 (UTC) * I dont think he is a villan. He was just trying to find something to do. In the beak, they were not trying to kill each other. They were just having fun. Even though he made that build board fall, he secretly knew that the beak will save the day. I mean really, making people wet, is that a crime? * What! Of corse he is a villian. Rampageing through downtown Danville, Dumping worms and Insect larve, freeing birds to attack the city, ruining peoples clothes with water, makeing The Beak chose between saveing Isabella and rescueing people from a falling billboard, and lets not forget that he never had a good day In his life (Simalar to a certain evil scinientist and Insane teen) If he "was" just playing with him he wouldn't have said "I'm Gonna make shure no one has the best day ever!" so yeah, he is absolutely a villian!Ultimatephinferbfan 15:53, January 17, 2011 (UTC) * KPP is a villain. And Candace DOES have good days. Don't be a Candace hater, Ultimate. * In fact, he is the very STEREOTYPE of a supervillain: A guy who becomes evil because of something that happened to them. Like Venom from "Spider-Man 3". * K,P. is "Emotionaly" the Best Villian ever. * He just became one because he never had the best day ever. Ferbet 11:26, May 25, 2011 (UTC) * Are we in agreement that KPP is a villain? StefCW (talk) 03:47, October 29, 2013 (UTC) Thaddeus Arrogant, competitive and a braggart. Wants to out-do Phineas and Ferb in building a fort. * discuss if Thaddeus is a villain here * He is.. all of the above but I am not sure if he is a villan Team Doofenshmirtz 16:09, September 16, 2010 (UTC) * Mm... not a villain in the true sense of the word but definitely an adversary. More like Buford than Doofenshmirtz. Fireside Girl 12:52, September 18, 2010 (UTC)Fireside Girl * He's a jerk! He and Thor are trying to rip off Phineas and Ferb, but they fail! The inventions that T&T built were not exciting AT ALL! T&T probably don't have any friends because of the way they act. Tpffan5196 02:38, December 24, 2010 (UTC) * Though I am not certain that the previous comment assists in resolving the issue, Thaddeus does not seem to be a villain, as he does not do anything that would harm anyone. FidelGVelasquez 07:55, November 27, 2011 (UTC) Thor Assists his brother in their projects and in the competition against Phineas and Ferb. * discuss if Thor is a villain here * There is too much unknown about him to know if he is a villan or not. Team Doofenshmirtz 16:09, September 16, 2010 (UTC)'' * According to the episode, I think he wants to be the best. If that makes you evil, then very much people are evil. Timdevries 06:51, September 19, 2010 (UTC) * He's a sad excuse of a brother. Ferb is much cooler. Tpffan5196 02:40, December 24, 2010 (UTC) Blanca Dechan Promotes a business culture that lowers people's self-esteem so that they will buy more Flawless Girl cosmetics to make themselves feel better. * Blanca didn't seem to realize that her attitude about beauty was the wrong kind of attitude to have. It didn't appear to be a conscious decision to force people to buy her products via her definition of what is beautiful. This makes her a jerk who doesn't know she's a jerk, rather than a villain. — RRabbit42 (leave a message) 06:27, September 16, 2010 (UTC) * Agreed * She had an antagonistic role, but if the dictionary is right, she's no villain. * I agree with RRabbit. She's not "evil". Just a jerk. CandaceFan 17:05, February 22, 2011 (UTC) Albert Skeptical about claims other people make. Holds himself as a measure of what is truthful. * discuss if Albert is a villain here * No!!!!!.... I mean no.. I do not think he is a villan. I think he is sort of like Candace in some ways.. He is just a big brother not a villan.. Team Doofenshmirtz 16:09, September 16, 2010 (UTC) * I don't think he's a villain, but he's a sad excuse for a brother. He uses nunchucks to beat up his brother. Who do you know beats up their brother that way!? Answer: NO ONE! Irving and Albert's family is messed up. Norm Originally created to destroy Perry the Platypus, but appears to have been reprogrammed as an assistant to Dr. Doofenshmirtz. Temporarily an agent for the OWCA. * More of a comical robot than a villian after the first epidode he was in. Isabella and Lego Liker 15:33, September 16, 2010 (UTC) * Yeah he is like a goofy sidekick than evil Team Doofenshmirtz 16:09, September 16, 2010 (UTC) * I dont think he is a villan. He even expresses his feelings to Doofenshmirts in the episode lets dance till we are sick. Also, when ever he is in an episode, he never tries to kill perry the platypus. Just in the first one, but i think he got smarter in each episod he is in. Wendy Was in competition with Candace for a job at the Mr. Slushy Dawg that Jeremy worked at. * discuss if Wendy is a villain here * I think she is just a teenaged girl who wanted a job... sure she was a bit snobbish about it but I do not think she is evil Team Doofenshmirtz 16:09, September 16, 2010 (UTC) Boris A bully that kicked sand on Heinz Doofenshmirtz throughout Heinz's life. * No other oppressive behavior or law-breaking was mentioned, so this seems to be more a case of a person with nothing better to do, rather than being a villain. — RRabbit42 (leave a message) 06:27, September 16, 2010 (UTC) * "The enemy of my enemy is my friend." Maybe he was kicking sand because Doof's evil, therefore making him on the good side...? Fireside Girl 12:54, September 18, 2010 (UTC)Fireside Girl Suzy Several instances of being mean to Candace, but does this as a means of controlling her brother and to control the people that he interacts with. Has also been mean to Buford at some time in the past, but what exactly she did has not been said. * Suzy is probably the hardest one to pin down as to whether she's a villain. If you go simply by if she does bad things, then yes, she's a villain. But she has a very specific reason for doing so and she will suspend this behavior when she decides it isn't necessary. — RRabbit42 (leave a message) 06:27, September 16, 2010 (UTC) * Even though she is mean to Candace she only does that because she is over-protective of Jeremy and she was nice to Candace when Jeremy was not around... I do not think she is a villan Team Doofenshmirtz 16:09, September 16, 2010 (UTC) * I think she only wants attention from Jeremy, some kids want this. So I think no. She is not a villian. Timdevries 13:00, September 18, 2010 (UTC) * Sure, she's mean to Candace, but maybe Candace did something mean to her in the past, so she decided that she didn't like her. As for Buford, maybe he stole her ice cream cone or something which ticked her off. I would be ticked off if a random guy took my food. Would you?Tpffan5196 02:43, December 24, 2010 (UTC) * Suzy's been refered to as evil several times in the show by Candace and once by Buford. In response to the comment directly above, Candace hadn't even met Suzy before Suzy decided she didn't like her. Also, Suzy has actually done the maniacal laugh a few times. I'm still on the fence if she's a villian or not, but she's definitely evil. StefCW (talk) 19:08, October 5, 2013 (UTC) Category:Villain Songs Since the definition of who is a villain needs to be decided, any pages added to this category right now are subjective and may change at any time. At the moment, the pages listed there are covered by the "Songs sung by Heinz Doofenshmirtz" category, so it is a duplicate. Do we need to keep this category or should we delete it? * cast your votes for or against keeping this category * I think it should stay Team Doofenshmirtz 16:09, September 16, 2010 (UTC) * We don't need this category, but I see no reason to delete it. Songs by Heinz doesn't have to be evil, and songs by other characters don't have to be good(though, these are usually the case). Maplestrip 13:52, September 17, 2010 (UTC) * Go. We have the Songs sung by Heinz Doofenshmirtz category anyway, so not needed. Isabella and Lego Liker 16:31, September 16, 2010 (UTC) * The ONLY villain who sings is Doofenshmirtz, so the category goes. CandaceFan 03:41, September 5, 2011 (UTC) * Ignore my earlier post. We DO have other villain songs now: Evil for Extra Credit, Weaponry and Taking On the Big Brain; as well as We're Evil. Isabella=Cute, Candace=Hot, Vanessa=Helloooooooooooo Nurse! (talk) 20:28, August 29, 2012 (UTC) Mindy Do you consider Mindy a villain, since she frequently harasses Candace Flynn, and gets away with it? For example, she took a picture of Candace (in Vanessa's clothing) and sent it to her contacts, especially when Candace didn't want it to happen. Don't be timid, come talk to me. 20:15, September 15, 2012 (UTC) *the first not, why not do it with heart "bad", but it is only interested in Jeremy. in the second, if he took a picture, it does no harm, not to know that Candace does not like that dress. no, not a villan 11:03, September 27, 2012 (UTC) *I don't think she's a villian. She's not always doing things in Candace's best interests, but she isn't close to being evil. StefCW (talk) 19:03, October 5, 2013 (UTC) *Mindy isn't evil, she just also loves Jeremy. And that second one? She just thought it was Candace deciding she was Goth now and wanted to be the first of her friends to have found out about it. If she was evil she would've said she was doing it specifically to embarrass Candace. Mindy doesn't harass Candace, Suzy does. ILoveCandace (talk) 01:01, October 6, 2013 (UTC) Goozim The Goozim has been posted in this category, and I was just wondering if it was actually villainous. To me, it seems to just be a mindless animal. Not particularly evil, just carnivorous and foul-tempered. You can say the same about a lot of animals, but I've never heard them called villains. When I think of a villain, I think of a sentient being with an wicked heart and a mind for evil schemes. The Goozim is more of a monster than anything else, and so should be in a category for monsters. (Do we have a category for monsters? I'd assume so, but I've never actually checked.)--StefCW (talk) 19:44, March 5, 2014 (UTC) Lulu "Busting" Jones She runs a television show that has the sole purpose of getting kids in trouble. Sounds pretty villainous to me, but what do you guys think?